NO WAY..., we all do this, my father inlaw has always payed the fuel bill when I take him over to the WCVI,

and then there's the home made wine!....don't want to go there!

Agreeing to share costs for a day on the water does not constitute a commercial (e.g. guiding) transaction. However, asking in advance for a set amount of cash that may or may not exceed actual costs may be considered a fee. My simple rule is to rely on the integrity of those I fish with. If they can't afford to share costs, fair enough. If they are too cheap, they don't get invited again.

my thinking is, if you are taking buddies and they share the bill, that is one thing. asking someone you do not know for money sounds like guiding.

Cheers All,

My appologies all. This is getting out of hand. I posted a simple statement and everyone is getting their shorts in a twist with their own interpretation on what is fair or what they ordinarily carry on as their common practice. I posted that a person who accepts 'fuel money' is a charter guide and I jumped one step in my explanation as I 'assumed' most would know the steps but I was mistaken.

So, for those who really wish to know, here is the 'legal' interpretation:


In Canada small vessels fall under two categories; pleasure craft for pleasure use
and; non-pleasure craft used for commercial purposes. Commercial relates to
vessels that are primarily operating for profit, normally with paying
passengers.

What's the definition of a passenger?

The definition of "passenger", as found in the Canada Shipping Act 2001 is
as follows: "passenger" means a person carried on a ship by the owner or
operator,

How do I determine if I'm carrying passengers or guests?

The basic consideration when deciding which category a vessel should fit is
whether the person(s) carried on board are passengers or not.
The situation is clearer where the vessel owner also operates it and there
is no form of charter party in existence. In this situation, you have to
examine the relationship between the owner and the people on board. If any
of them are paying money for their carriage on the vessel, then they will be
deemed to be passengers and the vessel will come within Transport Canada's
regime. If the owner is receiving any form of remuneration for the use of
the vessel, even if not directly from the persons carried, then they will be
passengers. If the persons are guests, there is no form of remuneration and
the vessel is being used exclusively for pleasure they will not be
passengers and the vessel will be under pleasure craft regime. This would
include the situation where an owner invites some friends for a trip on his
pleasure craft. If the sole purpose of the trip is pleasure and there is no
commercial element (remuneration) or intent then they will not be passengers.

Therefore if you are taking persons on board your vessel and they either provide remuneration willlingly or by request for fuel or other issues, you are a commercial vessel and they are no longer guests but passengers. Accordingly your pleasure craft insurance could be invalid as you are no longer a pleasure craft but a commercial vessel and, as such, would require the necessary equipment and the operator the necessary qualfications.

Ordinarily this would not be a problem but I believe that, should you ever run into difficulties at sea where there is a loss involving your insurance, you may be quite distressed to find the extent your insurance company may move to distance themselves from you and your claim. If that were for simply a small loss it may not be signifcant and one may be able to cover but should you ever find yourself involved in substantial losses you may never recover. And, while we all have friends we take out from time to time, I am never comfortable what a person would do when lawyers and signifcant loss occurs. Will that 'friend' stand beside you or beside their financial loss/gain. Yours to decide.

Finally, if you have accepted 'remuneration' of any sort to take a person boating and fishing is involved your guest is now a passenger and, under the law, you are a Charter Fishing Guide.

Do not shoot the messenger as I am not here to piss you off simply explaining what the law says and how it involves this specific circumstance. I am a fishing guide, I do have all the necessary qualifications and insurance to run passengers on my vessel. Do you?

Most sincerely,

According to whom?

Who wrote this?

Is it C&P'ed from the actual law or is it an interpretation-and only part of one-because that's what how it reads.

I certainly don't accept it as the final word and the bit at the end about Insurance may/may not apply it too reads like one person's opinion-although I agree that insurance companies are slippery.

well then I'll just have to get certified, then I could claim all expenses from my sickness called "sportfishing" and get a huge tax REFUND!!

Cheers All,

You are certainly most welcome for the legwork Whalebreath and no need to say thanks.

This legal interpretation/information was written by Transport Canada in a "Frequently Asked Questions" article in response to inquiries from pleasure craft operators who were concerned about breaching pleasure craft regulations vs commercial standards and the problems that may arise with their insurance. So many questions were directed that they came out with the 'everyman's english version' for those who were not capable of reading or interpreting legal documents. I do not have a specific name but, if it does make a difference, I am sure that person/committee/lawyer in TC could be identified for you should you wish to put in the time.

The information is cut and pasted as it was my attempt to provide the specifics of the issue without going through miles of boilerplate legal text as well as I have other more enjoyable activities to do such as...hmmm...fishing. Again...if you wish...I am sure you could read the actual law as it is identified for you in the response (Canada Shipping Act 2001). Everything you ever wished to know about this issue is there. This was simply my effort to clear up both the issue and the pointed comments arising from the issue in a straightforward fashion.

I didn't construct the Canada Shipping Act nor did I have input into that document. I am also sure some won't accept Transport Canada as the 'final word' and, for those individuals, there are lawyers and courts. The difference between pleasure craft and commercial within this Q&A (and the CSA2001) is very cut and dried. It is a much braver man than I who wishes to go toe-to-toe with their insurance company or Transport Canada should they find themselves on the 'other side' of the regulations.

Finally, as you mention in your response, insurance companies are notorious for looking at the insurance document to see if you are covered or not. Many call insurance companies 'slippery' or otherwise. They simply craft their legal documents in such a fashion that they have covered their butts before yours. You would be amazed at some of the tragic cases I have heard over the years about insurance that has been repudiated through breach of conditions.

If you have pleasure craft insurance (which is the majority of the insurance coverage by recreational sports fisherman) and you are actually carrying passengers (making you a commercial venture) then they will probably use every means to repudiate your insurance. When you get upset that they do that I wonder why. They offer conditions of the insurance and, should you choose to break those pleasure craft conditions then you have made the choice to invalidate your insurance and they are only following the contract or, in this case, the lack of a valid and enforceable one. N'est pas?

Let's go fishing!

Me too!! Simple Servant Charters... I like the sound of that and Tax savings galore!

Just Joking Fishing Guide! LOL!

Well according to FG... 100% of EVERY sportfisher I know that also owns a boat is in violation of the regulations. Of course, when I contribute gas money to someone on a road trip then they are also a commercial carrier and their ICBC insurance is also void. And when someone stays at my house and pays for dinner as a 'thank you' would suggest I am now running a hotel and my home insurance is void. And when I loan my lawnmower to my neighbour and they return it with a case of beer then I am a commercial rental operator.

I don't even know why I still post on forums. I get too wound up...

IF this guy ever got stopped and checked. A $1200 fine is sfa. I just spent well over that to get 'licensed up'. That said, I am now open for business. See ya on the west coast.